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Shine On Success
Shine on Success is a dynamic, story-driven podcast where extraordinary entrepreneurs, visionary leaders, and resilient change-makers share their journeys to success, revealing both the challenges and the strategies that led to their breakthroughs. Each episode offers a unique blend of inspiring personal stories, practical business insights, and actionable advice, allowing our guests to connect with an engaged, growth-oriented audience ready to be motivated and uplifted. By joining us, you’ll not only have the opportunity to showcase your expertise and inspire listeners but also to be part of a powerful platform that celebrates ambition, innovation, and the courage to turn dreams into reality.
Shine On Success
From Setbacks to Silver Screens with Jonathan Rach
In this episode, host Dionne Malush sits down with Jonathan Rach, an award-winning filmmaker whose career spans from small-town beginnings to global collaborations with icons like David Bowie, Nine Inch Nails, Lou Reed, and Janet Jackson.
Jonathan opens up about the highs and lows of a life in film, from navigating depression in Los Angeles to finding meaning in creativity, humility, and perseverance. Together, Dionne and Jonathan dive deep into what it means to stay sensitive in a world that often demands toughness, how setbacks can spark growth, and why true success is found in the process, not just the outcome.
It’s a raw, heartfelt conversation about art, courage, and choosing to keep creating, even when life tests you most.
Connect with Jonathan here:
Website: https://jonathanrach.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.rach/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_rach/
Connect with Dionne Malush
- Instagram: @dionnerealtyonepgh
- LinkedIN: /in/dionnemalush
- Website: www.dionnemalush.com
- Facebook: /dmalush
- LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/dionnemalush
Jonathan Rock is not only my amazing neighbor, but also an award-winning documentary and feature film writer and director whose career has been extraordinary. He has collaborated with titans of the music industry, including the likes of David Bowie, James Addiction, Lou Reed, Janet Jackson, Miss Jackson if you're nasty, right? Neil Young, Third Eye Blind, Lollapalooza, The Warp Tour, and Guns N' Roses. Jonathan's debut feature film, The Horror of Barnes Folly, has made an ultra low budget yet went on to win 14 film festival awards, beating out million dollar productions. What sets him apart isn't just the iconic names he's worked with, but his ability to turn obstacles into opportunities, telling stories with visuals, music, humor, and heart. Welcome, Jonathan. How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01:Wow, that person sounds impressive.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you kind of are. Like I'm saying, I'm so nervous. Well they know you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Wow, thanks for that intro. That was amazing.
SPEAKER_00:So one of my favorite things I always like to start with is what's one thing you want people to know about you beyond the credits and accolades?
SPEAKER_01:Wow, that's an interesting question. I would say I'm pretty sensitive. How's that?
SPEAKER_00:I like that. You are. And it's a great thing to describe you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And and if you um being sensitive could be a uh a plus and a con. And probably the first half of my life it was a con until I wrestled it and figured out how to control the sense of the sensitive stuff. And uh yeah, I would say I'm I've been told my whole life I'm more sensitive than the average person. So there you go.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I remember whenever I was going through some things when my dad passed, and we had a nice conversation, you and I did, and I felt that sensitivity, which was to me was so much kindness. And I appreciated that moment was just a very important moment in my grieving process. So, you know, I'm appreciative of that and thank you for it. Oh, I appreciate that. So, what was your dream job as a child and how close is filmmaking to that dream?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, I think when I first started focusing in focusing in on something, it was, oh, I'm gonna go up to New York City and I'm going to become an intern at the David Letterman show.
SPEAKER_00:Oh that was your like that's what you wanted to do?
SPEAKER_01:I did, yeah. I thought that would be the coolest thing in the world would be in the writing room and just get paid all day to like make fun of things and you know, because it was kind of an extension from high school, you know, you just kind of like making your friends laugh and making fun of everything, not taking anything serious. That was kind of what I was gravitating towards. So yeah, that would be the first focus in on something that I really wanted to do.
SPEAKER_00:So now that you're, you know, filmmaking, was that part of your dream? Like, did you know at a young age that that would be the extension of that?
SPEAKER_01:I did want to be a filmmaker. Yeah, there was a there was a phase of that too. Yeah, it's funny. The the things that sort of gravitated to me were well, what what's really interesting is I remember the guidance counselor taking us in the guidance, taking me into the room, you know, every student had to go sit in front of him. And I figured what grade that would be. And, you know, where we grew up, it was either you're gonna be a doctor, an engineer, or an accountant. You know, there was no such thing as any kind of job that you get paid to be kind of creative.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then I I just like as lame as it sounds, and so out of focus as I was in high school, I remember thinking, well, if I'm a physical therapist, I can kind of drive around all day and listen to music. So I was like, yeah, I'll go the medical route because I the idea of being able to listen to music all day inspired it was like, you know, so yeah, it just goes to show you how out of focus I was in the very beginning.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but then your love of music, it's sustained, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it I can't I sort of kept gravit gravitating towards the music, the music, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I love that. So you had a big break and it was called closure with nine inch nails. Is that correct? Is that your big break?
SPEAKER_01:That would be yes.
SPEAKER_00:So what challenges did you face stepping into a project of that scale so early in your career?
SPEAKER_01:Um, that was an extremely unusual project because I was thrown into the band Nine Inch Nails. I was thrown into the nucleus, the center of that, uh, as a filmmaker. And it was literally uh the band, myself, a tour manager, and a bodyguard. And we traveled for two and a half years in that little ecosystem. And uh, you know, talk about your workspace, your work environment.
SPEAKER_00:Very small, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It was a it was a cross between like the ultimate radio station giveaway, front row tickets, you know. Congratulations, you won. You get to not only will you be in the front row, but you will be on the tour bus for two and a half years.
SPEAKER_00:That's a long time. Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so I and then you know, learning that job on the literally on the road as I'm doing it, I'm learning it. There's no school for that. Um, one of the first things you kind of realize is like how to fit in, you know. In fact, I was kind of chosen because uh we were work, I was so I did Nine Snail's uh stage design.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And so I was working with them in the recording studio, and and it's all you know about personality and getting along, and obviously they they like your vision and all that. But when Trent Reznor, the you know, that's his band Nine Inch Nails, when he he came to me and he said, Hey, how would you like to come out on the road and document the tour? Um, you know, the one we were working on the stage on. And he said, Uh, think about it. It's gonna be pretty impactful in your life because you're out for you know months at a time. And uh, I talked to the other band members and they I said, What do you guys think of Jonathan? Do you think he's a cool guy? Can he fit in? And they were like, Oh, yeah, that guy's awesome, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Nothing to do with the actual art of like filmmaking. Yeah. But it's yeah, it's it's like a makeup artist, you know. Any makeup artist that's very successful will tell you that the personality has to play a role because you're gabbing to the person, the celebrity in the chair all day. And if you're, you know, if you're not bonding with them, they're not gonna ask for you to come back. And so I spent more time just trying to fit in with the band than I actually did filming. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So in that time of your life, so you're far away from home, right? You're here in the Mon Valley, like you're two people on our street, ended up on that um the you know, the West Coast doing amazing things. How what kind of adversity did you face in that point of your life? It was so different, right, than where we're at here today.
SPEAKER_01:I got really depressed when I first moved to LA.
SPEAKER_00:Bad. I bet you did.
SPEAKER_01:This is gonna sound odd, but like freaking me out was the uh, you know, we're from the East Coast here, obviously. We're a little more tied into the East Coast uh mentality. And I was freaked out by like like the 70-year-old man with the blonde hair and uh the you know the the uh facelift. I was just like, what is that? I don't I can't relate to that at all. I don't know what that is, you know. And it's all it felt disturbing and it was like I'm really far away from home. There's no there's no east east coast culture going on here. No, but the thing that you do learn about Los Angeles is it's such a giant metropolis that you can find anything and everything there. So it you could find whatever you're familiar with, you can find that flavor pretty quick and fast if you just kind of keep moving and searching, not only from not even where you live, like there's so many demographics to that city, but you can also find it in the people that you kind of gravitate towards. And then, you know, I I was pretty quick and fast to work with Trent. And Trent's actually, I don't know if you know this, but he's from Mercer, Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_00:No, I did not know that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. He's he's from like maybe what two hours north of us, an hour and a half. So we connected culturally, and um, but yeah, I just uh yeah, it was it was it was it was so different, man. And I really honestly, I'll be honest, and I I will be honest about this. I really was depressed for like a year and a half. I was like, oh my God, what am I doing? I've got my family and friends are back east, and it just it was pretty hard, I have to admit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and you live on an area where this this street is everyone gets along so well, and I've only been here for five years and I see it. I can't imagine 25 years ago what this was like here. Did moving there, getting involved in all of that change who you are?
SPEAKER_01:I definitely evolved. So I think I would have changed even being here. One thing I would say that, you know, I did a lot of traveling because of this job. And um, we we've all gone on vacations and things like that. And some of us have jobs where you actually have to travel. I there's something about traveling, right? It's just like it's one thing to like learn about a city and people through the internet or a movie or something like that. But when you actually go there and you experience it and you walk around, it it really enlightens you. And so I was I was pretty fortunate. First of all, just traveling across the country to Los Angeles was just so not in your radar back then. This is this would be 1991 or two. I did this, and you know, driving away with my girlfriend at the time and looking back at my mom in the driveway, crying.
SPEAKER_00:Crying your eyes out. Oh, I know I have that same company. Yeah, my parents actually left us, so I get it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god, it's like yeah, and my girlfriend going, Oh my god, your mom's crying in the driveway. And I'm just like, oh my god, like right away, it was like, What am I doing? you know, but you just experience all these cultures and all these people, and yeah, even the 70-year-old dude with blonde hair and a face, you know, a face uh facelift or whatever. Actually, toupees and you know, whatever the crates in belt in um Beverly Hills in 1991 was just it's some of that stuff's become a little more mainstream, but back then it was like, what is this freakish thing I'm looking at? But yeah, uh well, one thing that you'll find interesting, especially for people that grew up around here in in this, you know, southwest Pennsylvania. I don't know, when you grew up, do you remember like just how far away Cleveland was?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it seemed like forever, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Never even thought of going visiting it, never even thought that it was where we live, right? Two and a half hour drive to get to Cleveland.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's not even farm, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Literally on a Friday rush hour, 5 p.m., it takes two and a half hours to get from one side of Los Angeles to the other. So that's like coming from a smaller town and going to this giant metropolis is was, you know, puts it puts it in perspective a little bit, you know.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. That is livable. I love LA personally. I the times that I've traveled there, which were not that many. I cried when I came back because I thought I'm definitely meant for more than this here. And but I never left. And so it was it definitely was a place where I first started thinking that that I should be somewhere else. But I never did it. So it sucks, but I mean I grounded myself so deep here that I can't get away now. So, anyways, but I do love it that it's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:But you you've done so many amazing things here, which is so exciting. And and I, you know, just to say, like, I relate to you because you feel like like for me, I traveled and did I live so many places and did all this stuff, and then I kind of found it comfortable to come back and spend time here. And then like I see everything you're doing and everything you're accomplishing, and you you feel like somebody that has traveled the world, is open, understands it all. Do you know what I mean by that? Like we're very open-minded and and it's awesome, it's inspiring. Oh, thank you. It really is. It's it's like completely inspiring. Everybody knows who you are. Every time I say, Oh, you Dion lives across, oh, I know the, you know, and Jason. It's yeah, well, definitely.
SPEAKER_00:I've been working on that, you know, getting my presence here soon. But you know, it's it's I always feel like I missed something. You know, I I should have, could have, didn't. And my parents, like I said, my parents drove away when my sister I was driving behind them in the car, and my sisters were standing in the in the on the street crying their eyes out, and I'm bawling my eyes out. And you know, they moved away for 25 years, but you know, it gave us the most amazing times away, things that we wouldn't have done if we were in Pennsylvania with them. You know, we stayed overnight, we did all these cool things. So that's right. And there's something to be said about it, but I kind of wish when they left I would have moved at that point and then started this all. But like you said, everybody may not have known my name in some of those big cities. It would have been harder to grow in a bigger place.
SPEAKER_01:Or you would have been a big name in a big city.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I could have been that too. Yeah, like oh, so I never wanted to be like the either queen of the Mon Valley, but then I turned around and I and I did what you did. I looked at it and I thought, you know, it's really, really nice here and it's peaceful. Moving here made the difference. I have to tell you that for me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I have to say, you know, that's you know, even my friend, I have a friend who's a rock star, literally a rock star. And from my job, I developed a good friendship, and he has a life that we can't even imagine. He's literally a rock star, right? That that they joke about that, like, oh, you live like a rock star. Well, he has the life that you know many would probably dream about. Not all, but many would want to aspire to. So he says to me, What's it like, dude? Like you spent time in in Los Angeles and then this job, you know, in the center of things, and then you're now you're back in your small town spending time there. What what's the pros? What's the cons? What's it like? You know, he sometimes I he goes, sometimes I just dream of a simple life. Like I just want things to be simple. I just want to, you know, you know what I mean? So I told him, yeah, it's there's a lot of amazing things to be in a small town and just it's relaxing and you just feel like you just feel more uh less stress. You just kind of relaxed a little more, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So I like that. And yeah, something I came came to me the other day, and I figure I might as well share this today because it kind of fits. But you know, I just turned 57 and I started to think, started to think that moment, that rock star moment, that win the Super Bowl moment, that feeling that people get in those situations. I said to Jason, I may never get that moment. And that's a moment that I wanted so bad. Like, when am I gonna be at that peak that is so incredible? But with that comes a lot of costs, right? Maybe not the real friends, maybe not family that cares about you and everybody said that you know the rock star life, you know, he may want what we have, right? More than we want when he has.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's it's very true. I'll be, you know, totally having it being able to experience both as a kind of a having, you know, unique perspective on both. I noticed that when things, because I'm also a little bit in the film industry too. And so I noticed the more money that's involved, uh, or in fame, which is power, which is money, all that, the more you're gotta be on guard, the more do you know what I mean? Like, and they'll lie and they'll do whatever it takes, and some are desperate and and you you kind of have to be on guard where you know, as if some no one's trying to get other jobs from you or anything like that. But I I that's what I noticed when they're the the politics become intense and people are willing to kind of you know throw you under the bus in order if it makes them move up the ladder, and there's there's just a lot of that you gotta kind of pay attention to. Where, you know, if you're doing your thing off in the corner of the world and nobody cares and you kind of nobody nobody's trying to get your job or anything, you know what I mean? So it's yeah, surely not.
SPEAKER_00:And let's talk a little bit about your feature film, your first one. You didn't have a lot of money to do that, correct?
SPEAKER_01:I did not. So, so yeah, so this is a great, like I was kind of seeing, you know, what your what your podcast is about. You know, one of the biggest obstacles for a filmmaker is that uh you need a lot of money to make a film. And so it literally, you know, everybody gets stopped right there. And then, you know, to try and get studios to give you money or, you know, an independent investor, it's a big gamble. Film is one of them, you know, one of the least secure kind of investments there is. And so I was kind of like stuck in that zone for a long time. And I actually, um, Matt Stone and Trey Parker are friends of mine. Okay. Uh uh, and so I said them, I used to go play soccer with Matt on the weekends. And so I said to Matt, because they're very successful, South Park is like insanely successful. Really? I mean like insanely successful. And so I said, Hey, so this is this is kind of a cool thing. I asked a couple of friends. I said, you know, he's my friend, but I'm sure the last thing he wants to do is talk about, you know, and also what happens is a lot of these guys that make it so big, they they their agents and their managers literally tell them sometimes, you know. I mean, it's I'm not saying you follow this advice, but like I had a friend that knew uh Zach Gelafanakis, the comedian.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Who his career just blew up. And his manager, his agent literally said, You gotta drop all your friends from the old life because they're all gonna want a favor from you. Now, not everybody follows that, but there is some truth to that. Um, and so like I thought, well, just because he's my friend doesn't mean he should be investing in my projects or taking time and all that. And I was kind of asking a bunch of people, like, you know, well, how you know, I have this friendship with Matt, who's they're successful filmmakers. And and they said, dude, just like literally go up to Matt and say, Hey, dude, at your convenience, when it makes sense for you, I'd love to go buy you a cup of coffee and pick your brain and just hear your thoughts on filmmaking.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And uh, you know, instead of like, hey, I have this project. What do you you know? That's like and that's what most people would do. Yeah, and and and most people like to talk about themselves and what they've accomplished. It helps to kind of like, you know, uh dial it back into your your psychic or whatever, you know, when you when you actually talk about you go, oh that's right, I did kind of do that and all this and that. As silly as that sounds, it's like you you're uh yeah. So he he said, Yeah, man, sure, no problem. And we went and got coffee and uh at a coffee shop and we were sitting there and he basically he told me three things uh because I wanted to do this film, the the one you were talking about. And he goes, Look, if the first thing he said is if if you don't have make the film that you can afford.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So um just make a film that you can afford. If it's a$10,000 budget, it's a$10,000 budget. You just gotta make the film you can afford. And so, and then he said three things, and I followed these. He said, Do your homework, uh, make sure you know your craft. Don't think you can go in and wing it. He's like, Trey and I, Trey and I know filmmaking. We studied it, we learned it, even though we're doing like 14-year-old humor, and it looks like something that a 14-year-old would sketch. Uh, he goes, We we know our craft, we know our trade, we understand it. Um, so know know your you know, know your craft. And then for me, that was I I studied uh storytelling. And so I really wanted to learn storytelling and understand how to tell a story in a feature film kind of format. And then the second thing he told me was set slightly unrealistic goals. And I actually heard David Bowie say the same thing when I was out with David Bowie. We were all sitting around and he sort of said the same thing. He's all he's like, and I think he's even said this in public, but he likes to do things that are just a little out of his comfort zone. Um, so imagine like walking into the water and where you're just you know, you're you're I I think I'm I have enough dis you know, it's just right there is where you want to be. I love that. Yeah. And so Trey and Matt said the same thing because, you know, you just gotta do something that's just a little bit out of your your comfort zone and don't overthink it. And, you know, especially in humor, don't overthink it. So a lot of times I've seen artists overthink things, even very successful artists, where they, you know, sometimes it's that initial insight or inspiration that's gonna be the truest to whatever's true to you. And then when you when you get in there and you start mauling it over and over and over and over, you start degenerate like a copy of a copy, it starts losing its problem, you know, makes sense. Because no one's spending that much time with your art. Most people are gonna give you a first impression and that's it, and they move on. Yeah, so that was interesting. And then the last one was uh have fun with the process because there's no guarantee that the outcome is gonna be what you want.
SPEAKER_00:So uh having fun doing it, and then it won't matter as much, right?
SPEAKER_01:It won't matter as much. Uh and so I followed all of those, and so that was a very powerful cup of coffee that day.
SPEAKER_00:Oh sure, that's so great. You know, I always tell everyone that I mean my the most powerful word in the English language, the three-letter word is ask. Like, what did it hurt you to ask that? It it literally helped affect the rest of your life by asking for something outside of hey, just pick me, pick me, right? So love that. And I tell that to our agents all the time, and I tell that to Jason, like, what's the worst thing that happened? Just ask, you know? And so never be afraid to do that. I love that advice.
SPEAKER_01:That's very powerful. Yeah, very powerful.
SPEAKER_00:So I, you know, I learn constantly learning. I love to learn. I spend every day and night watching classes, learning AI, learning storytelling. So I've been following Donald Miller, and he does he is uh taught storytelling and marketing. And I have one of his extra books I'm gonna give to you. So, anyways, I love that idea that learning your craft and just being best. And I talk about something called uh 100 hours to mastery, which if you ever heard of Ed Milette, he talks about that, how you could take 18 minutes a day and by the end of a year you're gonna know more about the whatever you're studying than 95% of people. So you spend 18 minutes a day scrolling Facebook, 18 minutes a day reading email. If you shifted that to something that you really wanted, by the end of the year, it's life-changing. Yes. So, anyways, I I love that idea and I love your advice. So we're I'm gonna we're definitely gonna pick up that and I'm gonna pull it out of this episode. So thank you for that. So, was there ever a moment in all of those years and you're still doing work, right? You're still out there doing work. You're you know, you're not retired sitting back, you're you're actually out there still, which is amazing. Was there ever a moment you thought about giving up on this whole thing?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, many times. From being the blonde-haired seven-year-old guy with the facelift? Uh no, I would say, um, yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, I feel a little privileged with my job being so close to such, I mean, literally some of the most successful, iconic artists. They all have doubt. They all have doubt behind the door. You know, they they really do. And I think if you don't, you could be kind of rudderless, if you know what I mean. You could be kind of just wailing in the wind and not really getting it. I remember one time one of the artists turned, we were just had a moment and he was just like, I don't know what I'm doing. You know, I sometimes I just want to get in a car and drive way out to the desert and just run from everything. It's just too much pressure. And um, I've had an artist that at the peak of success cover Rolling Stone magazine, kind of confide and saying, I've never been more depressed in my whole life. And so to go back to what Matt said, it is the process. You gotta be enjoying the process because that's your life. That's what you're doing, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Because it will not, you feel like that, right? You feel like that. And I feel honestly, I have to be honest with you and everyone else. I feel like that still. Some days I feel like getting in the car and driving as far as I can away. So if I feel that at my level, I can't imagine 20 times that level, how the pressure that's on them. You see all the the good stuff, right? On social media, you see all the good, but the pressure that you don't ever get to see. And talking to you makes me realize it's not just me. It's not just you out there in this audience. It's we all feel something like that at times in our life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I remember um I had a psychologist friend, he said something that was really interesting, and then I and then I heard it again in a different version. He said, We're all gonna have problems in our life. We we're we're just nothing goes smooth for anybody. And so, you know, somebody living in Beverly Hills might be complaining that day that their air conditioning's not working, and that's their life. And somebody in Ethiopia is complaining they're not getting enough food, and that's their life. And he's trying to say that, like, I mean, obviously, the Ethiopian example is a lot more intense and a lot more, but he's saying, like, no one escapes the fact that we all have problems, and you're never gonna live that perfect life um and be thankful that maybe you don't have the problems of someone starving in a third world country or like that. And then, like, I uh I met this other guy, I was hired to write a movie about him, and he sold his medical company for something like 200 million dollars. Wow. And with some of that money, he wanted to tell his story in the form of a movie. And you know, he was society said that he shouldn't have that kind of success. He was from Detroit. Okay. A black guy from Detroit, and he he wanted to do, he wanted to tell his story and show that you can be very successful as a black person that's outside of music and rap and sports and all that they, you know, they think that that's the only option there is. And but he said, talking about this subject, very successful guy. He goes, I tell my kids all the time, he's like, we all have a set of problems to conquer. Why not pick the ones that are the ones that are towards your goal? Like, you know, you know what I mean? Like he's like, you're always gonna have to be striving and trying to figure things out. So why not just pick what it is you want to do? Like, you know, you're not gonna escape that by picking something that you don't want to do, and just because it's easier, you're gonna still have struggles.
SPEAKER_00:So make them pick the ones, yeah, that are push you forward. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So that thought that was a cool.
SPEAKER_00:You've had some great advice over the years. So that's what my next question is a little bit about. So you've worked with many icons, people that a lot of people have never met and could never dream to meet. What is the most surprising lesson that you learned from them?
SPEAKER_01:Like collectively, sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like or one specific. I mean, it could just be one specific, but there's lessons in all of it, right?
SPEAKER_01:So I learned that, and I didn't follow this all the time, and but you know, looking back, I would give this advice is um uh, you know, just uh learning from them and seeing how successful they were in their life. It seems like uh an uh the equation is to make it simple, like a three-part equation, is to you stay positive, always positive, always positive, and then patience, like just be patient with the process, and then you know, accomplish those small little goals that you've you kind of daily need to get at to ultimately head towards your bigger picture. All those very successful people uh just kept grinding away at it and um staying positive, being patient, uh waiting for a lucky break, discovering, you know, their craft in more detail, doing what they want to do, not trying to, you know, people will tell you a thousand things, which is great, but at the end of the day, you know, you're the CEO and you they're all just board members kind of like suggesting things.
SPEAKER_00:Sometimes there's not the right people to take advice from, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, talent to listen to it all, even when something's like, whoa, no way, I totally disagree with that. But it's kind of a gift to hear it and process it. Does it make sense? No, it doesn't. Hear the next person. But I think like if you start, you know, getting a little lost and just kind of listening to people um that mean well, boy, you can really waste time. And I thought this was pretty cool, Dion. And I thought this relates to you, and like I get this in you. So I was fortunate enough one time. Trust me, I did not belong in the room. I was fortunate enough one time to be at a dinner function for directors. I, you know, knew somebody, and it was a small little dinner function for about 50 people, and Steven Spielberg was there. One of, you know, there must have been seven Oscar winning, you know, like the the top of the, you know, you couldn't get and then Spear Steven Spielberg went out to do his talk, and he got up to the front. And I'm like, oh my god, is Steven Spielberg while you know? Oh my god. He said that all he like owned it. He said that all these other directors that were accomplished, like well accomplished, right? He goes, he like talked to them and he said, Look, it is your responsibility to be a mentor. He goes, That is part of our job. You have to mentor, you cannot sidestep that. It is part of what we do. And he he meant it just as much as winning an Oscar. You take and you mentor people and help them on their path. And I thought, you know, it just it just goes to show what a character, you know, and it that that has to show up in his work, his character, you know what I mean? So and then one time, you know, just to show you he just to stay on that for a second, my buddy saw him once at a party and he went for it and he walked up to him and he said, uh, I'm I'm a you know, I'm an aspiring filmmaker, and I would love to just come onto your set and watch you uh watch you work. And he Steven said, Um, I want to tell you something, it's very boring on the set. And and so you could tell he can't say yes to everybody that asks him that because it becomes dysfunctional for what he has to do. But he he he took the time to talk to my friend, and he said, I, you know, you you'd you'd be bored on the set, but but I have no problems talking to you right now if you want to, you know, ask me how do I maintain my sets and all this and that. And my friend's like, sure, you know, and he says, Well, I you know, I like to make sure I listen to everybody, I take the time to hear everybody's input because I'm smart to know that instead of just one guy looking at the subject, I've got potentially 20 people looking at the subject. Yeah, and you know, as long as it's organized and you listen to everybody, you can you can decide. If something's on or inspiring or not or off the mark. He goes, But you really have all these resources around you and they're going to teach you things. And so uh he just sat and talked to him for like 15 minutes. And and my friend was like, Oh my god, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, right to that character, right? That you just said. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then in a on a funny note, my friend has a sense of humor. And at the very end, he goes, I feel like I've earned my right now to pitch a film to you. And you and I was like, No, dude, please tell me you didn't end that conversation that way. And he goes, I started to describe ET to him. He goes, I got this idea of like this extraterrestrial being that comes down and like it's just funny. Yeah, he did that. Yeah, so the Spielberg laughed. He thought it was pretty funny. He was more obscure than I was just now, but he was like telling the story to Spielberg and slowly goes, Wait a minute, you're describing E.T.
SPEAKER_00:to make me No, it's so funny. I I mean that's good. That's kind of a cool way to end it. I'm sure that we ever did that like that. That's kind of cool.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they had he said it was a really cool conversation.
SPEAKER_00:Just showed the character of the man that you just talked about um in front of that audience. I mean, in front of the other directors, how cool.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So what motivates you to keep pushing creatively after decades of success?
SPEAKER_01:It feels like a therapy right now. Like it it's it's fun to do, it's quality, it gives me excuse to listen to music. I'm right back there with the guidance counselor. I think it's it's a therapy. Yeah, it's like a therapy. And so again, to anybody that's thinking about picking up something in the line, you know, in the in that sort of realm of like, hey, I want to paint, you know, I want to write songs, I want to, you know, there's no one telling you no. You find the time and you do it and you enjoy the process. It it only has to please you, which is great pressure off your shoulders. I mean, just do whatever it is. Don't try and, you know, mimic anybody. Just do your thing. And I find it is an incredible way to spend time and it's like a therapy, and you feel kind of cleansed after you kind of do it. And yeah, it's it's it's fun. I really love it.
SPEAKER_00:God, I I love that you love it. You can see, and you're you're calm, and I like you're always like this. This is who I see when you're outside on the street talking, or when I see when I run into you in a restaurant, you are you, and that's it's a beautiful thing that you've maintained that. So, what are you most proud of of all the things that you've done?
SPEAKER_01:I'm proud of all my drawings, which I don't even share. That's the thing I love the most. I I I have all these just these drawings that I do, thousands of them.
SPEAKER_00:How do you draw?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like I mess with them in Photoshop and all that. And as far like I was I'm very proud of the movie that I made. We had a lot of fun with that. Uh, I won a bunch of awards, I got work from that, met some interesting characters, learned I I kind of learned the whole process of you know, from start to finish. Yeah, that I would say that was uh that was the most rewarding thing. Yeah. Fun.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was very fun. And I love that I love creativity and I'm so creative and I love AI and what I can do. Like I feel like there's the creativity is ten times better because of what I'm learning and I can the things I can create faster. So I I love that you're doing that. So and I love Photoshop. I mean, it's the things that you can create are just unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01:But love Photoshop. That's right. I forgot that you you know Photoshop really.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I know. And I know now that I you know know AI really well, the things that I can create. Someone said, Is it is it as creative as you? I'm like, well, actually it's actually more creative because it's helping me think differently so that create better. So yeah, I'm one of those people that know that if the more I learn it, the better I am. And it just it's making me smarter and it's definitely making me more creative than I've ever been in my life.
SPEAKER_01:That's very insightful and smart of you because I I do hear the people that are that like want to reject it. But really, honestly, uh every time there's new technology, the old school way wants to reject it. But if you use it as a tool, I mean just like art, it's like any artist's tool, right? Any artist tool, right? Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:It it's just uh yeah, so I'm I'm just overloaded. I'm on AI overload right now, which is okay because I'm still grieving too. You know, it's been two years, and then Jason could be through all of this with the liver trans. So if I can take that grief and funnel it, it's extraordinary the things you can do.
SPEAKER_01:So Yeah, I I probably need to learn more AI.
SPEAKER_00:I sat with someone the other day. He owns a he owns a like a motor car part shop shop here in the area, and I sat with him for an hour and he was like, Oh my gosh, I said I can do all of that that fast. You know, he was wants to sell some of the products, and I gave him all these tips, and I just did it right in front of him, and he was blown away. So, yeah, I I love that. So I have one last question for you. How do you want your story, not just your films, but your journey through challenges, through your life to be remembered?
SPEAKER_01:Hopefully, inspiring. Yeah, inspiring. You know, you you you strive for that. Humble, like when you meet, like because because you have to remember, I'm in that, like I've been I was lucky to get into that nucleus inner sanctuary of some of these like really hardcore, intense following. Uh like, you know, sports has the same kind of intense following, music has intense following. So a lot of times people, because I just even know the camp or I did something, or I, you know, I'm not the musician, but I'm getting that same intensity to know about the musician through me. And um, I'm I'm always I always try to like it, it's very humbling to to see somebody so passionate about your work and the artist that you're working with and all that. It's humbling and it's everybody's so kind. And I like to like we just did an exhibit that went around the world of uh my photography. And so again, it was a specific subject was nine-inch nails, and they have he has extreme followers, like he they're really devoted to nine inch nails. It changed, I hear it all the time. It changed my life. I got the, you know, his poetry, his music, it it saved me from what I was going through when I was a kid. And so it's it's more than just music, it's like it's a philosophy for a lot of people, and I'm not used to that kind of attention. And so here I am out front, and uh, I was like, well, what's this what's the best? They're not really it's not about me, it's about the artist, and I'm there capturing the artist. So I what I said to just to give another kind of a piece of advice that I found that's really helpful is when somebody's talking to you at like with that kind of enthusiasm, it's makes you feel a little uncomfortable at first. And then you say to yourself, I say to myself, clarity through listening. And so what I mean by that is it's not about me. I want to, I want to understand this person's passion, why, where it's coming from. And so I just really want to listen to them and ask questions to them, you know, oh, what what made you, you know, what is it about Nyan Schnell's music that oh that way? Yeah, and so I take it off me, which it's not about me, it's about the artist. And then I really want to hear what they're saying. And so I used to have anxiety with all that, and then now I I know if I just say to myself in my mind, just clarity if you're listening, you know, listen to what they're saying. It's not about you, just what are they saying, and really understand what they're saying, and then try and follow something up with what you know what they're presenting to you. And you know, David Bowie was like that. He was when I when I first met David Bowie, I was really nervous because I was hired to document him and I was put in close proximity, and you could tell he was more interested about who I was than talking about David Bowie. He was burnt out on David Bowie, you know. And then I think that works for all of us, no matter who we are. You don't have to be David Bowie. I think it's if you just get out of yourself and listen to who's in front of you and try and be inspired by what they're saying and who they are, and we're all that common humanity, kindness. Boy, doesn't the world need more of that? I mean, just kindness. Like what happened?
SPEAKER_00:I have no idea. It's I don't know. And something you just said just made me think of this like what constitute a great life is when it's not about you your entire life, when you make it about everybody else, right in the stories and the things that you learn and when the advice that you get, like you just told said some advice that you had from a young age that affected you so much because you listened. Right. I don't think people listen at all. It's the scroll's too fast, you can't pay attention. Yeah, it's so fast nowadays. So, you know, I it's so impressive, and I am so excited that you've been on here with me today.
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate you asking.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so could you just end this with how do people find you? Like, how do they find your art, your photography? What what can they do to find out more about you?
SPEAKER_01:I have a website. Well, first of all, my Instagram right now. So it's it's just my name and Instagram on Instagram. So it's Jonathan underscore rock r a c h. And then um I have someone that's just about to they redid my website, and so my website should go up in the next week. So there's also a website, just my name, JonathanRock.com.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just searching my name on Instagram, you'll see everything, and that will lead you to the website if you want to see the website. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I want to end it with this. Your work proves that adversity isn't the end of the story, it's the beginning of greatness, and I see that in you, and there's still more to come. This is not the end. We've been through a lot of things. Good, bad, maybe some of those moments that I look for those moments of you're on stage, you're seeing things that maybe I haven't seen, but you didn't give up. You're you're not done yet. And I love that about you. So keep pushing, keep being you because you're you are extraordinary, Jonathan.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I appreciate that. You are too, I have to admit. I I see you in in this world here too, because we live so close to each other, and I'm inspired by you. I really am, and I'm impressed with how you're so generous. It's funny, all these things that we're talking about, I see you doing that. You're you're you are a very positive, inspirational person, and it doesn't matter who's standing in front of you. I see you talking to people, and uh yeah, it's really inspiring. David Bowie would be lucky to be in the same room with you. How's that?
SPEAKER_00:That would be amazing. How cool would that be? There's some pretty cool people you've been around, I have to say, for sure. Thank you very much, and I hope to see you soon.
SPEAKER_01:Hope to see you soon, too.
