Purpose in the Fire and the Making of an Unstoppable Leader with Bishop Kevin Foreman

What if the very valleys you’re trying to escape are the places designed to make you unstoppable? In this deeply moving and transformational episode of Shine Up Success, host Dionne Malush sits down with Bishop Kevin Foreman, a visionary leader, entrepreneur, artist, and the renowned “People’s Bishop,” whose journey proves that purpose can turn even the darkest moments into divine momentum.

From growing up in Orange Mound to building multiple thriving organizations, Bishop Foreman opens up about the childhood adversities that shaped him, the leadership principles that have carried him through financial collapse and reinvention, and the spiritual mindset that allows him to walk through fire without losing faith or joy. He shares why success requires speed, why your greatest victories often come from your deepest valleys, and why sometimes the blessing is the valley itself.

This conversation will challenge your thinking, strengthen your spirit, and remind you that nothing in your story is wasted. If you’ve ever felt stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure of your next step, this episode is the confirmation you didn’t know you were waiting for.

Connect with Kevin here:

Website: https://www.harvestchurch.church/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bishopforeman/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bishopforeman/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bishopforeman1

Chapters

• 0:02 Faith Meets Fearless Leadership
• 0:55 Beyond Titles: Joy, Drive, And Fun
• 1:44 Becoming “The People’s Bishop”
• 2:46 Orange Mound Roots And Early Grit
• 5:06 Finding Voice On Stage And In Business
• 6:31 From Young Entrepreneur To Hall Of Fame Musician
• 6:51 Mortgage Rise, Industry Collapse, And Resilience
• 8:03 Planting A Church In A Valley
• 9:22 Three Principles To Scale
• 11:08 Mindset Shifts: Speed Over Certainty
• 12:13 Balancing Creativity With Systems
• 13:16 Daily Alignment And Protecting Your Fire
• 15:04 Burnout, Boundaries, And Delegation
• 16:24 Enjoying The Work You’ll Never Finish
• 17:16 Music With A Pulse: Club To Church
• 18:01 Living Shalom In Real Life
• 19:03 The Phoenix Move: Rebranding To History Makers
• 20:42 Closing Reflections And How To Connect

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:02

What happens when faith meets fearless leadership? Today's guest is living proof that purpose can turn pain into power. Known as the People's Bishop, Bishop Kevin Foreman is a visionary pastor, entrepreneur, artist, and success coach who's redefining what it means to lead in today's world. From his humble beginnings in Orange Mound, Memphis to founding Harvest Church and Harvest Leadership Network, Bishop Foreman has devoted his life to helping people win spiritually, mentally, physically, and financially. He's also a recording artist, best-selling author, and founder of Harvest Bible College, blending creativity and calling into everything he does. Bishop, it's an honor to have you on China Success.

SPEAKER_00: 0:40

I'm so listening thank you so much for having me. I appreciate what you do. You know, creating these types of conversations for people can be great catalysts to transformation in their life. So thank you for what you do. And I'm super, super excited to be with you today and all your folks, all your audience.

SPEAKER_01: 0:55

So I always like to start with this question. Before we get to your incredible journey, because we know it was incredible, what's one thing you'd like people to know about you beyond the title or platform?

SPEAKER_00: 1:04

You know what? I would say that I like to have fun. I love to have fun. And uh to me, fun is not just what you're doing, it's who you're doing it with. So I I enjoy a good laugh. I enjoy a good time. I'm super competitive in everything that I do. So I love to win. And so I love to have fun. I think you gotta enjoy your journey. Sometimes we're so focused on the destination, we don't enjoy the journey.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26

Yeah, I feel that. I feel that I'm in that process right now. Sometimes I forget to enjoy life. And it's silly, it's silly because there's so many great things in this life, and I'm excited to get to know you better. So that's a great title. What does it mean to you and how did it come to represent your mission?

SPEAKER_00: 1:44

You know what? Really, people started saying it. Um, so you know, the the the stories that came out of my mom's room with a Bible and a briefcase. So I always had this affinity towards spirituality and this affinity towards success and business and entrepreneurship. And those two things always ran paralleled in my life, they still do today, parallel in my life. And uh, and so, but when it came to being a pastor and a bishop, which is a pastor to pastor, so you know, every coach needs a coach, every general needs a general, every leader needs a leader. So I really uh speak strongly to the life of leaders, lives rather of leaders. And I tell you, it is what the people began to say because I genuinely care about the people I'm connected to and then I leave. From a child, I've had this very paternal nature. And so even when I was in elementary school, middle school, high school, you name it, I was always this very paternal figure. And so I always wanted to see people win, and that is true to this day. As a leader, to me, you're a success when you have success stories, success awards, people who can say, because of what this man taught, what he did, et cetera, I'm succeeding.

SPEAKER_01: 2:46

So you grew up in Orange Mound. And can you tell me about the early experiences in your life and how it shaped the leader that you are today?

SPEAKER_00: 2:53

Yes. So I was born in Denver, raised in Memphis, and Orange Mound is the community. We specifically call out Orange Mound, because if you ever look at it, it is, it's one of those areas that is filled with the plight that often accompanies a lot of these inner city areas that, you know, immediately post-slavery in America, it was one of the many what they call black wall streets across the nation over the time, through policy and other things, it it began to experience, you know, a lack of investment, et cetera. And so you begin to see the tide turn. So in that area, I saw a lot that, you know, a kid shouldn't necessarily see. I saw gangs, I saw drugs, I saw Thrive by shootings. Um, yeah, for those unfamiliar with that, it is where someone literally is driving by, they let the window down and they discharge a firearm on whatever, whoever they're trying to get. So I saw a lot of that. And at the same time, I saw an incredibly um an amazing mother, amazing great-grandmother. We called her Mimi, and uh, and she was there, and I was a bad little boy. Let me tell you something. Every parent, if you got a rambunctious kid, a lot of times that's just the leader, and that leadership doesn't know where to go. It doesn't know what to do.

SPEAKER_01: 3:56

Is that what it's called?

SPEAKER_00: 3:57

That's what it is. In my case, let me say that in my case. Uh that's what it is. I just was um, I was very rambunctious, I was very headstrong, I was very much so a take charge type of person. And uh, and so those qualities began to come out. And so in elementary school, I will you put me on a stage, I come alive. Sometimes, though, you put me in a small group, I got very, very, very, very, very shy. But you put them on a stage, poof. So smokers, everybody knows smuckers, grapes, and jellies. So I was the spokesman for smokers in second grade when they came through Nymphis City Schools. The newspaper, I think, was called the Commercial Appeal. And at that time, the the latest and greatest technology was called the homework hotline. So a parent could pick up their phone and call in and get the kids' hotline, you know, homework or whatever. And that was the latest and greatest in like, you know, technology at the time. So I was a spokesman and they, you know, I would go and do these news tours and stuff. I was the type of kid that always wanted to be friends with the leaders. I was different. I didn't really care about making friends with my peers. I always wanted to be close and have some level of, you know, friendship or camaraderie connectivity to the leaders. I think that's because, again, there would be a leader in me, so I was drawn to what I would be and who I was. And uh you fast forward, I get into ministry at 12 as a drummer. And uh I was horrible.

SPEAKER_01: 5:12

I was a drummer, were you? I was the band in the band for like from fifth grade to twelfth grade. I carried the big bass drum and the cymbals and the and had that big thing on my head. Yeah, there you go. My thing on my head.

SPEAKER_00: 5:26

I love that. I love that. So you get it. So I but at the listen, I was bad. When I started, I would, in terms of keeping the beat, I would go fast, slow, fast, slow. I mean, but I got really good, and eventually I'd be inducted into the Colorado Gospel Music Hall of Fame. Uh, drums, keyboard, music production, uh, leading songs, all of that. All the songs that we've released, I wrote them all, that executive produced them all, and that that was awesome. Simultaneously, though, um, started my first business when I was 12. So at 12 years old, um, there's a bank in Denver called Young Americans Bank. You have a special charter from the state to issue financial products for kids under 18, of course, with parental consent. So every entrepreneur that goes to that bank, or every young person that goes to that bank, the second level, there's something called a young American. It's literally like a little town that middle school students, high school students come in and they run the city to get a feel for what it's like to be the mayor, be the police chief, or that type of thing. And they have people come in, teach trades, all my kind of thing. It's great. Every entrepreneur has to walk past me when I was 12, holding up my business plan. I still have a picture of it over there, holding up my business plan. They have to walk past me doing that because I created the program. We pioneered that program. And uh by 21, I built Denver's largest black-owned real estate finance broker, Soak Mortgage Company. And, you know, then we, of course, planted the church and started from nothing uh from scratch. And uh we have uh just seen amazing growth. Professions of faith, we've seen over 12,000 knocking on the door of 13,000 in our existence. This year alone, we've seen over um 1,600. We're knocking at the door of 16, 1,700. Um, this year alone, as the time that we're recording this. So it's been amazing to see a lot of the journey, and that journey has been filled with peaks and valleys, and peaks and valleys, and that one statement. Um, my mom got me something when I moved out because I was the type of person, like day eight, like 18, like the moment I turned 18, I was out. I was ready to go. I was ready to ready to do my own thing. And she got me one thing that I still have to this day. I see it every time I walk into my home. It says, Life is a journey, not a destination. Enjoy the journey.

SPEAKER_01: 7:32

So, how did you know that ministry and leadership were your life's assignments? So, when did that happen?

SPEAKER_00: 7:36

Honestly, I just was always that way. You know, some people say like they're at this moment. I just always, that that's where the joke is. That's how I came out the womb. I just was always that way. You know, I was always helping somebody, always pouring into somebody, always giving counsel. Like, you know, in middle school, I can remember. I was in sixth, seventh grade, walking around, we were in Denver at that time, walking around like the courtyard of the schools. Most schools were like basically have a big middle courtyard, and then the school is basically built around it's a big square or rectangle or whatever, what have you. So I would walk around and I have my entourage of all of my deputies at my cabinet as the student council president. We were walking around looking at issues, meeting with students, everything okay? You good? You what you need, what do you need? Everything all right, what do we need to take care of for you? I go meet with the principal. I need to see the principal. Uh, we got some issues that we need to address. Like, I was always this advocate and making sure people were good. It was just really innate for me. And I recently discovered because I taught this series called uh Talk About Restore My Soul. And your soul is basically your mind, thoughts, will, emotions. That's all of those things comprise your soul. And we're our souls are shaped by the environments that we're in, by things that we believe, by, you know, the impressions that are made on us. And I realized that a lot of that parental nature, which manifests his leadership, manifest it as a pastor or and now as a bishop, which is a pastor, two pastors, came because um, while I had an amazing, loving mom, my stepfather, he was an abuser, he was a womanizer. A lot of the things you would see in him, you would say, these are qualities I don't want in me. And I was able to look at his life. And sometimes the gifts we're given don't aren't packaged the way we think they should be. I was given the gift of seeing this is the man not to be, this is the man not to become. And so um, you know, as a result, as a kid, I was very parentified. I was very, you know, taking care of my brother and sister. My mom never asked me to do it. It was just innate for me. I was a kid, I wouldn't go spend the night over a bunch of friends' house and that type of thing because I thought I better be home to protect my mom because who knows what my stepfather, if he get, if he takes the wrong, you know, drug this weekend, who knows if he takes the wrong drink this weekend. And what it did is it gave me a heightened sense of responsibility and leadership and parental and paternal instinct that I think has served me well. I think it was a gift to me. Um, you know, you can look at that as a as a as a you know as a negative thing or a positive thing. I chose to view it as a gift and say, this is showing me one exactly what I'm gonna do later in life.

SPEAKER_01: 10:08

So we all go through adversity, right? And every one of us has things that we go through. And you know, I I talk about this a little bit throughout the last couple of months because my husband had a liver transplant in the end of March, and we've been going through a lot. And I it's just been a life of a lot of things. And I think the same way you do, I look at the gifts and everything, the light and all the darkness. And really, there is so much to learn if you just pay attention and you really search for it. And I love that you shared that because I want everyone to know that no matter how dark it gets, no matter what's happening, there is always light, there's always a positive message that you can find, but you have to search for it. So, what do you tell people that are going through something so adverse because you've been there, right? Something so adverse, how do they pull back and get back out of the fire and move, keep moving?

SPEAKER_00: 10:53

You know what I even say? I think sometimes you just gotta learn how to walk in the fire. I think sometimes we want out so bad that we miss the blessing that's in it. Sometimes you can want out of a valley so bad you miss the blessings that are in the valley. And so that's the way I view it. So even in life, even when I look back, I was never complaining. I was never negative, I was never you know, and you're a kid, so but you can tell something's off, something's wrong. This shouldn't be that way. And I look at other people's families and stuff, and I say, Well, I don't think I deal with that. And of course, you never know what's going on behind closed doors. But what it did is it taught me to be tenacious, it taught me to be tough, it taught me to look at a problem and say, you know what? I see you as a problem, and either you get out of my way, I'm gonna go through you, go around you, go over you, go under you. Like it taught me, don't take no for an answer. For all of the negative things that my stepfather did show, there was some meat there. There were some good things there. He was a very charismatic person. So he could sell ice to an Eskimo and uh take it off of his igloo and make you and make that Eskimo think he got a great deal. Like, honey, look at this great deal we got on our, you know, on our eyes. Like, honey, is it that from our house? Uh our igloo. Oh, but there was some good there. Seeing my mom press her way through that and raise three kids who have all um become very successful in different things, seeing her do that, uh, seeing her press through that, seeing her tenacity, seeing how, you know, when you know, you just say, How much can one person take? And to see her push through and press through, and you know the amazing thing, and not become bitter.

SPEAKER_01: 12:23

Yeah, that's the that's amazing for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 12:25

The most loving woman, she taught me love because at night we would go around the house, good night, love me, good night, love you, good night, love you, good night, love you, good night, love you. She taught me love. And despite all of those things, she never became bitter. And to see that, it really helped me to say, you know what? It shaped me to say, You're gonna deal with challenges. That's what it's that's life. That's why. And you either get stronger from it or you can be sad in it. And I chose and I continue to choose, let me just be strong, let me get some strength from this. You get to pick your emotions. So I choose to not pick emotions that don't serve me.

SPEAKER_01: 12:58

I I really appreciate that. And I feel the same. And you know, for me, my journey has been a lot of things, and it's just you keep pushing through it. And I remember always wanting to be the protector too. I had two younger sisters, and my brother died when he was three days old, so we didn't have boys. So I was the tomboy, right? The one that if someone messes with my sister, I'd be hitting them with her head against the window on the bus.

SPEAKER_00: 13:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 13:19

I was not putting out with anybody messing with my sisters, and I'm the same thing now. Like I feel, you know, we have over 200 agents in our company, our real estate brokerage. And if somebody messes with them, I feel like I'm back on that bus. I'm gonna hit your head right off the window if you don't leave my people alone.

SPEAKER_00: 13:33

Yes, that but see that prepared you though. That that prepared you so that you'd be able to lead in such a way. Because what I discovered is that, you know, great people appreciate a leader like that. Yeah, great people appreciate a leader like that. Um, they have leaders that'll fight for them, believe in them, be loyal to them. So I think you your proof of what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01: 13:51

Yeah. So your proof of geez, well, what are you doing? You have Harvest Church, Harvest Bible College, Harvest Leadership Network. That's massive. What principles helped you lead and scale successfully? That's a lot to do.

SPEAKER_00: 14:04

You know, it is. I just love taking nothing and turning it into something. So those are the the for-profit, excuse me, nonprofit ministry things. That's totally separate from my for-profit MA mergers and acquisition stuff. So, you know, after building that successful business by 21, you know, again, it was the it was, and I don't know if I said this, but it was Denver's largest black and real estate finance program, so mortgage company by the time of 21. And then, of course, the industry collapses. So this isn't 08. This is pre-08 when things are happening in the secondary market before they make their way to, you know, uh primary markets. And so, you know, 2005, 2006, like literally one of the big banks we used, they were based in Southern California. And most of my offices were in Denver. I just opened a brand new office. So I had a bunch of new loan officers, new processors, new administrative staff. Like, you know, we were just, we were just like, and then we had a big, huge boiler room, and uh couldn't hear all the LOs were, and I would hire people who nobody else would hire, give them an opportunity, teach them the business, what have you. And one of the big banks, the one of the first to go down that we use. I really remember remember watching on Saturday. I woke up, put the TV on, and there's federal agents walking out of this bank with boxes. So on Monday, I call my rep at the bank and I said, What's happened? He said, Oh, the bank is insolvent, it's over. I said, Oh, that's unfortunate for that branch. You know, I didn't understand the gravity of the situation. Well, yeah. I said, I said, that's unfortunate for that branch. He's he said, Oh, no, it's it's over. Like it's it's over. It's done. I said, Oh, that's really unfortunate for Southern California. He's like, No, you're not gonna understand it. He said, like, there is no more of that da-da-bank. I said, Well, what's gonna happen to all of the volume we have with you? Like, there's like we have millions of dollars worth of loans in the pipeline with you. It's it's over. Okay, it's done. And they were bought, they weren't bought or acquired, it was just over. So then we had to switch all of that. I've I quickly watched this empire that I had built up. I quickly watched every river, every flow just shut down, crumble to where poof. And it wasn't just our business, it was everybody's business at that time. And so, to your point about scale, then after that, then that's when we would start the church. And I remember praying a prayer. I was like, God, why would you have me to do this while I'm like going through this? Like the valley just started. Like, why didn't we talk about this at the apex of the, you know, the business and what have you? And I learned that sometimes your greatest victories come from your deepest valleys. Your greatest victories come from your deepest valleys. And so it was in that valley that I wrote my first book, Making Money Movies, the Already Getting Your Financials in Order. It was in that valley that we planted the church. It was in that valley that so many great things came out of it. And I learned an important principle about scale. How do you do all these different things? And the three principles I would say I took away were number one, stop thinking it's either or, it's always both and. Don't have a limited mentality, like I can only do this. And that goes contrary to what a lot of people say now. You should just do this and just focus on this and only do that. To me, you're robbing the world of what you were given if you restrict yourself to thinking I can only do this, I could only do that. There's so much more, and the world needs what you have. That was number one. Number two, I learned that there is literally nothing I can't make it through. There's nothing I can't make it through. In life, I've seen tremendous adversity, seen tremendous things. I know what it is to go through financial valleys and you're like, I'm gonna make it through this. And then I know what it is to get totally out of debt, be totally debt-free, bounce back, bigger, better than you've ever been before. I learned there's nothing I can't make it through. If I ever feel overwhelmed, what I do is I step back and say, it's because I'm not looking at it right. I need to look at this from a different perspective because I have proof, empirical data, that I am a survivor. Empirical data, then not only do I survive, but I thrive. And third way that I learned and principles about how to scale is I realized that it was important for me to be married to the results, not the method. A lot of the times I would protect the methodology to get results instead of just being, you know, focused on the results. So as a result, in business or what have you, I would keep doing something because I'm like, well, no, this is the way we've been doing it, that's the way I've been doing it. And I said, no, no, no. You have to learn how to evolve and evolve quickly. And that's what I began to do. So to me, it's all about the results. What I'm doing today, if I discover there's a better way to do it tomorrow, it will absolutely change the method.

SPEAKER_01: 18:11

It's like you're speaking directly to me. What you just said, those three things, I needed to hear so much. And I just said even this morning, I was meeting with my pastor this morning, and I said, it would be a shame if all the stuff that I have in my head and my computer never gets anywhere, because the world will miss that whole thing. If I find a way to get it out there, and here you just said that the world needs it. They need me.

SPEAKER_00: 18:32

Wow, come on. See, that's what I'm talking about. I just kind of say this. I believe in divine connection. I don't believe in coincidences. To hear that makes me, I mean, it brings chills. That excites me so much because you never know. That's what I told you. You never know the conversations that will be catalysts for people's lives. And listen, it it it was something that to confirm what you had already spoken today. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 18:51

Just this morning, and this happens to me a lot. There's God winks, right? This is something I hung up in the day. And I think about, you know, I feel like there's more purpose for me in this world than what I'm doing for sure. And I I'm working on how do I get the message out and how do I do that. But what you said, the second thing is I can make it through anything. So I told you what the liver transplant, then it's a full year, and then we have that. Then my dad passed away two years ago. So those are just cadults current things, right? That are like that. But there's been an entire life filled with them. And I started myself thinking, Am I like the modern day Job?

SPEAKER_00: 19:23

You know, this was way worse.

SPEAKER_01: 19:26

Let me tell you, uh, he was way, way worse. But the everything keeps pulling up on my shoulders, but you know what? My shoulders are so strong now. Yeah, there's and I'm not like you working out every day, but they're strong. I'm one bad young lady. Um, actually old, because I'm 57.

SPEAKER_00: 19:41

So that's not all it. That's not old. No, no, no, no. We're accepting that.

SPEAKER_01: 19:45

You know, so, anyways, thank you for sharing that. And I I am interested in hearing a lot about, so I know about all those other businesses, about your coaching of leaders through business and personal development, because I love personal development so much. What's the number one mindset shift that you see that separates those who talk about success and those who actually achieve it?

SPEAKER_00: 20:01

Ooh, so good. I would say um, from a mindset and mind shift standpoint, is just that the ability to shift your mindset. People who have fixed mindsets are people who typically don't finish much, they don't move forward fast, and they're always finicky. They're never ever into any finality. I've discovered that people who are very successful move very quickly. And by the time somebody else is finally says yes, they've done eight things. By the time somebody finally says, okay, I'm gonna do it, they've done a bunch of things. And so I think um, there's this saying, lots of people say, I don't know who it originated from. So, you know, my view is first time I hear it, if I know who said it, I'll give it to them. Like third or fourth time, I'll just formanize it and make it my own thing. Is they said, you know, money loves speed, success loves speed. The faster and the more quick you move. Sometimes we spend so much time getting in the over-analysis that it becomes paralysis. And there's this interesting study I watched recently that said and looked into that said smart people tend to succeed less. And I thought, well, that doesn't make sense. Sydney, if you have if you if you're smart and you're, you know, more skillful and aerudite, shouldn't you do better? They say no, because smart people will literally come up with 99 reasons something won't work. And a person who perhaps is not as, and I use air quotes smart, they will simply take action because they don't know all of these other things, and their lack of knowledge actually becomes an advantage because they didn't create a box or a boundary because they live like an expert instead of living like a student.

SPEAKER_01: 21:30

Yeah, so they don't care about the how, they just get there. Whereas there often thinks through the how, right? Every step of the way.

SPEAKER_00: 21:37

You gotta know every step. And there's a faith component to that, right? Like if you want to know every step, there's no faith in that. Like the opposite of faith isn't fear, it's certainty. You know, a lot of people say we got to starve your fears and fears of faith. Those two aren't opposites. Fear is an indicator it's time to walk by faith or use faith. The opposite of faith is certainty. You know, there's a scripture that says now faith is the substance of things hoped for. If I'm hoping for it, I don't have it. The substance of things not seen. If I can't see it, I don't have it. So the opposite of faith is certainty. So one of the best ways, and I see this in very successful people, they just do it. They don't sit there and say, okay, I'm gonna work on my plan. Okay, look, do something on your plan. Sometimes you have to build the plane while that doggone thing is in the air. And that sounds totally contrary to people, again, my nature. I was very structured, I was very and I have systems and plans, and I'm still very much so that way. But I've learned when it comes to success, success requires speed.

SPEAKER_01: 22:28

So I was thinking about something because I'm super creative, right? So I'm a graphic designer by trade prior to own owning this company. I'm very creative. I feel like I'm it's my superpower. But I also think that I have the left brain and the right brain, which I'm one of the anomalies, right? Not people have one or the other. And I feel that you might be the same as me. You have that side of creativity, you have the spiritual side, the entrepreneurial side, right? You have a lot of that mixed up. How do you balance all of it? Because I feel sometimes I'm in that smart zone where I'm thinking about it way too much and stop and I'm not doing it. I think it's my both sides fighting each other.

SPEAKER_00: 23:01

So can you know what? I'm gonna tell you exactly what I do, and I'm gonna pull it up in my notes. And it literally, so one of the things I have to do is have these reminders that are just things that like kind of like going to a chiropractor. Keep yourself in alignment. Sometimes you gotta have like your basic rules of engagement. We said, Oh, I have it in my mind. I discovered that when you see it, you can seize it. So I always have things written. And one of the things that I have is literally, it's written in my notes. I wanted to come to it as we're doing it. It's right here. And it's one of the, it's one of the 18 things I remind myself on a daily basis, and that is this the light is always green unless I get a red, right? So how do I balance the two? Because I'm I'm I'm that anomaly too. Where I can organize it, I can strategize it, I can systematize it, I can, I can do all of that. And then on the other side, create. And sometimes those two can clash because when I want to be creative, I need to be the other. And when I need to be the other, I I need I'm doing the other. What has helped me is I simply say it's a green light, go. Like, and then I I coiner it's so simple, but it may help somebody. I was like, God starts with go.

SPEAKER_01: 24:04

So I never said that one. That is so good.

SPEAKER_00: 24:07

Yeah, it's so simple. It's like God starts with go. So just go. Take action. And sometimes we overestimate and catastrophize. Well, but what if this goes wrong? And what if this doesn't happen? What if I don't plan for this? And most of the times, those things that we're thinking about never happen, never materialize, and are never even things we have to uh address. So I have to daily remind myself green light, green light, green light, green light, green light, go, go, go, go, green light. And I it it's so, it's so um intricate in how it waves down into your life, is that even when I'm driving, I was driving one day and I paid attention because I'm normally always on the phone. I'm normally always on the phone, always on the go, um, doing interviews, leading our organization, leading my businesses, all that. So I'm always on the go. And um I noticed one day I was driving and I was so frustrated. And I said, why are these people driving so slow? And I leaned over and I said, There's nobody in front of them. And it was so simple. I said, and here's the revelation. I said, I am frustrated that somebody else is slowing me down because I wasn't willing to just get in my own lane. Get in your own lane and go. Instead of, oh, this person, this person, oh, this company, all this business. I'm waiting to hear back from them and all that. I think for every leader, sometimes you're frustrated with stuff that you control. You're the driver. Drive.

SPEAKER_01: 25:19

So good.

SPEAKER_00: 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:21

So that I think is a very important question. It is post-COVID. I think things have been incredibly insane the last four or five years. There's much coming at us. That break that we had of a few months of peace and quiet, I think it quadrupled what happened prior to. And it feels so exhausting every day. So in this world filled with distractions and pressure, because there's a lot. How do you personally stay aligned with your purpose?

SPEAKER_00: 25:47

Woo, so good. It goes back to those things that I mentioned. I daily, I daily breed myself into alignment. I daily remind myself this is what you're here to do. This is what you need to do. One of the things that is on here, I'll just use one, I'll just pull one out. It says this be clear up front. It's one of my 18 things. I don't have time to waste. So be clear about who I am, what I want, how I'm to be treated, how it's to be handled. Be clear up front. Because a lot of the times, that's just something we don't do. We jump into something and we weren't clear up front. There's another one on here that says, My why. I remind myself of my why on a daily basis. It just says, gee, do everything I can as fast as I can to reach as many people as I can. It just keeps me aligned. So I think everybody's got to find those values that are centristic to you, that are your bedrock. And then you keep yourself in alignment with that. Because it is easy to get distracted at all of the stuff. And most of the times when people say they're burnt out, it's not that you're burnt out, it's just that you're not doing the main thing. What's burning you out is that you're dealing with all this other stuff and you're not doing the main thing. You're not doing the main thing. Happens a lot with entrepreneurs and business owners. You know, I'm just burnt out from my business. Are you burnt out from your business or are you really mad that you're doing your assistant's job?

SPEAKER_01: 26:55

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_00: 26:58

Right. Cause that because you wanted to create and to build and to vision and to walk in and do all of that. And you're sitting here responding to emails and you're sitting here, you know, planning travel and all of that. And not saying those things aren't important or to say that your assistant is less than or anything like that. But the point is, that's what burns you out. What burns you out is when you're not doing the thing that keeps you on fire. So for me, I make sure I have to do the things that keep me on fire because if not, it won't burn out because you're busy doing all of these other things. And I had to learn, even in the church, um, you know, we just crossed the 16,000 mark of people who are connected to us. We're hyper church and buildings and the line. We just crossed the 16,000 yesterday, in fact. And um, so we reach a lot of people, and there's so many more people for us to reach, lives for us to change and impact. But I had to realize like, what are the things that I do not like doing? So I looked at it and I said, I don't like doing this, I don't like doing this. When I do this, it drains me. When I do this, it drains me. Like I dread doing this. So I said, these are the things that I need to offload to someone else because this should keep me on fire. The moment I dread doing what I was created to do, we have a problem. We have a problem. Because here's what I discovered. And this is for every entrepreneur, every leader, every business owner. If you shut your business down today because you've burned out, those people are gonna go find another job just like that. And that's right, I mean, they should. I mean, they need to eat, they need to work. They have to. But don't set yourself on fire to keep everybody else warm. That's how you burnt out. You set yourself on fire to keep everybody else happy, everybody else warm. And I learned like, I'm not doing that. You're not gonna kill me and then and then to stand up at the funeral and say, oh, he was such a great man. No way, Jose. That's not gonna happen. So I think you have to do that, keep yourself aligned with those things. But I just simply refuse to do things that do not keep me on fire. I will offload it to somebody else, I will delegate it to somebody else. And sometimes, entrepreneurs, we have to be willing to compensate someone to do some of those things that we don't like to do. You're trying to save$500 a month or whatever it might be, or$1,000 a month, not realizing what that costs you, because that costs you a creative idea. That cost you a conversation with another leader where iron sharpens iron. So you may think, oh, it's nothing, it's just a conference, it's just an event, it's just a meeting with some other business owners. But but that you could have got one idea that changed everything. One conversation changes everything. So to me, I've learned um that I just have to not set myself on fire to keep everybody else warm.

SPEAKER_01: 29:15

When I walked into my home office this morning, I had this feeling that I never once had before. I thought to myself, so we're never gonna get it all done before you die. So I'm running myself around trying to do all these things.

SPEAKER_00: 29:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 29:27

There's always more things. The things never stop. And you're creative like us, right? We're so creative, we keep creating. Yeah. So I have to live in knowing that I'm not gonna get it all done. If I live for 30 years, if I live for three, there's so much all the time. I give and if I enjoy it and love it, that's one thing. But and I do. So there, you know, I do appreciate that. But it's just I never really had that thought before. And I thought, huh, that's really weird to think about. Like I'm trying so hard to get it all done. It's never gonna happen because I'm never done.

SPEAKER_00: 29:53

Yeah, you always don't have something new. And you know, in the way I think they look at that too, is to look at it as sometimes vision isn't For now, sometimes it's phases, sometimes it's stages, sometimes it'll be something you leave for generations after you. You know, I think the moment that we've done everything that's in us, that's really when we've been poured out, you know. And you know, my view is this if I still got a pulse, he still got a plan. And I think sometimes the reality is, you know, we we're full of so much, and there's so much for us to be able to do and accomplish. And recognizing that, you know, there's these great opportunities we've been given to do that. And uh when you're create to your point, when you're a creator, when you're an entrepreneur, when you're that type of person, you're always gonna have an idea. You're all I mean, literally, my reminders list goes from, you know, I got it down from like 75 things today. I got it down to like 40. And then as I was uh leaving a meeting earlier, it jumped back up to 54. And uh like it's always gonna be something. You're always gonna be working on something, but you said the key, but enjoy it. For sure. Enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01: 30:55

Can we talk a little bit about your music? Because it's obviously reached many more than just beyond the pulpit, right? You have some pretty cool songs and you blend worship worship with modern sound. What message do you hope your music sends to this generation we're in today?

SPEAKER_00: 31:08

Ah, you know what? I'm gonna say the same thing. Like, enjoy life. Like our saying at Arbus is love God, love people, love life. And we added a new one, make history, like go change the world. And so one of the songs is called Evolutionaries. It's kind of like an EDM feel. Love the song. EDM is the number one music in the world, which I didn't know that until I was doing the song. And uh, it's full of life. Here's what's so cool about a lot of our songs that we've we've gotten videos where they will play them in nightclubs. It is so cool. They will play our songs in nightclubs. And I was like, that is cool. Like, you know, like that's great. And literally, I mean, I got a video one day that said, Oh man, one of our people was like, I said, Sir, don't don't judge me. I said, But you're never gonna meet you. That's not that's not who I am. I said, but I was um got at this video and we were at this club, and then all of a sudden I was like, wait a minute, I know that song, and everybody's dancing to the song or whatever. So, you know, it has been it's been amazing. Creating a sound that connects and resonates with people has been super amazing. My favorite song, and people can get all this at bishopforeman.com and get the links to all that, but my favorite song is this one I wrote called Already One. And it just the the lyrics go, um, when I feel like I'm fading and my progress is erasing. It's just such a powerful song because it connects to the depths of what everybody feels. Sometimes people think being a pastor or being a bishop, being a spiritual person, like every day is just, you know, you're just sitting up having Starbucks with Jesus and you're just having a great day every day. If you have no issues and everything's fine, like you're always here. It's not that you're always here, it's just that even your lows are higher than most people's highs, even your valleys are higher than most mountains. It's the ebb and flow of life and realizing that life is not this linear thing. It's gonna have the ups, it's gonna have the downs. That song, oh, let me tell you something. Listen to that bad boy, have some tissues, have some tissues, because that song is gonna take you in. If tears are coming down your eyes in about two minutes, something's wrong.

SPEAKER_01: 33:00

All right, I'm gonna listen to it as soon as we hang out. I'm excited to listen to it. Talking about this, what does walking in shalom? Nothing missing, nothing broken, nothing lacking look like in everyday life.

SPEAKER_00: 33:11

You know what? That's so funny you asked me this question because I had on a different shirt. And so I uh early today from my interviews and things earlier today, and I said, Let me just put this one on. And so there you go. That was so hard, right? Right. Right. It it is it is um it's this word peace, uh, it's this Hebrew word for peace, but but it really means all the things you just said. Nothing missing, nothing broken, nothing lacking, all is well. And here's the underpinning of that realization. Because some people say, Well, no, something's missing, something's lacking, something's broken. Here's the underpinning of that is that the reality is maybe how you thought it was would be is ruining how good it is. Did you just say that one too?

SPEAKER_01: 33:48

No, but I just I've never heard anyone see it like that.

SPEAKER_00: 33:52

Yeah, I'll I'll say it again because some I know I talk fast, so I'll say it again. Sometimes the the way you imagined it would be is ruining how good it actually is. And so I thought it was gonna be this, I thought it was gonna be this, I thought it was gonna be this, I thought it was gonna be this, and that's ruining how good it actually is. And that's what Shalom is all about. Shalom says that what's that if I looked in my life, all is well, nothing's broken, nothing's missing, nothing's lacking. Everything I need, I have. It's in me, it's around me. I'm surrounded by answers. It is like the uh antithesis of paranoia. Everybody knows what paranoia is. You think there's this conspiracy against you. Pronoia literally is the literal antithetical meaning and psycho psychological disposition that says, I believe there's a conspiracy going on too. But everybody and everything are working together for my good. That's what shalom's all about. And that's what all my teaching's about, all of my leadership's about, every organization I lead is about is maybe the way like I remembered when I achieved a certain financial level of success or a certain educational level of success or whatever it might be. I remember thinking how I thought it was gonna feel. It happened. And I was like, I didn't feel like that at all. What I thought this was gonna feel like, it doesn't feel like that at all. And what that helped me to realize is that's shaman. Like, don't ruin how good it is because of what you thought it was gonna be or how you thought it should be. Same thing happens with marriage. A lot of people think marriage is gonna be this and it's this. They think, you know, business is gonna be this. You're just gonna always gonna be on private jets, sitting back in the Delta Lounge or the centurion lounge, just sitting back eating and going to veil and aspirin and taking ski trips and stuff, and you know, whatever. And sure, you may do those things, but many times being a leader, you're calling the shots. So guess what you're taking? You're taking the shots too. Everything is your fault. Everything is your problem, everything is your issue. That's why you're the chief executive. You gotta deal with all the stuff that nobody else was able to deal with. So that saying really helped me. And it really is something that I really live by. That you know what? Don't ruin how good it is because of how you thought it was supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01: 35:52

Do you sell shirts like that?

SPEAKER_00: 35:53

We do. DeputySupport.com.

SPEAKER_01: 35:56

Check that out. So tell me what's next for Bishop Kevin Foreman and the harvest movement.

SPEAKER_00: 36:00

Ah, you know what? So we moved our headquarters from Denver to Atlanta. And so we're gonna be launching a location here in Atlanta, Georgia, uh, which I'm super excited about. Uh, we are, of course, always expanding our online um so that we're uh platform, our apps, and all that. So that's going through a whole um, you know, upgrade. And we're changing the name. It actually won't be harvested anymore. Now, the V won't go anywhere. The V is thing, it's just gonna become a T in History Makers. So we're changing the name uh to History Makers because I want to spend this next phase of my life creating people that make history and building people that make history. So it'll be everything will be rebranded. History maker Bible College, History Maker Church, History Maker, the leadership number. Everything will be rebranded to that because I want to, I think everybody has to go through these phases and stages of life. And it goes back to something I said earlier. I'm not married to the method, I'm married to the results. And it's like the Phoenix. Coming to Atlanta to me was really significant because, you know, the Phoenix is the bird of Atlanta. Of course, there's no real bird of Phoenix. It's the myth of the Phoenix that it sets itself on fire when it realizes it's reached the end of a previous stage of life. Now that's so powerful because it literally will tear up what everybody else says. It's so great, it's so good. It'll literally set itself on fire to re-emerge, renewed, restored, replenished, and better than it was before. And so even coming to Atlanta, it's like a Phoenix move. Everything is great. We're just gonna take it to the next level.

SPEAKER_01: 37:22

I love that. And I am so blessed to have had this 40 minutes with you. I can't even tell you. Thank you for sharing with us. Now, can you tell everyone how they can find out more about you?

SPEAKER_00: 37:31

Absolutely. Bishopforeman.com, that's the website on all the social media platforms. It's at BishopForeman, F-O-R-E-M-A-N. And I would love, if you listened to this, if you watch this, something was said that added value to your life, I would love for you to shoot me a DM. Just let me know I was watching, I was listening on the show, and you said this and it spoke to me. I love that because again, back to results. I love to hear how what I do has impacted somebody's life. And I actually review those, I listen to those. Every card, thank you card, birthday card, whatever appreciation card I've received in my 19 years of being a pastor, I still have every single one. Thousands of cards. I still have every single one. Because to me, the impact you make in people's life, that is the one thing you get to leave this earth with. The impact you made. Can't take my house, can't take my car, can't take my 401k, can't take my IRA, can't take the 403B, can't take my investments, can't take my crypto. But you know what I can take? The impact. You think of it?

SPEAKER_01: 38:22

We can make it through anything.

SPEAKER_00: 38:23

Here you go.

SPEAKER_01: 38:24

Thank you so much. It was my pleasure.

SPEAKER_00: 38:26

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.